Embrace The Downvote...?
I've been on chain for almost 5 years now and I've seen quite a bit. And nothing seems to get people on the blockchain more fired up than...
The downvote debate!
I addressed this a few years ago and had quite a good discussion about it all, and recently there has been some 'downvote drama' that some of us, including yours truly, have been caught in the cross fire.
Generally, in all my years on chain I have kept clear of all downvote drama, downvote wars and downvote debates. My thought on the entire thing is...Abuse gets my downvote but not much else does.
I know that's not a popular opinion, but Hive generally does a pretty good job of self-policing itself until the 'wars' start...Then it's all emotion and insanity lol But at the end of the day, your stake, your choice! You can vote for someone, or you can downvote someone.
And boy did I get one last night LOL I'm kind of scared to say it but I think this was my biggest downvote ever and I hope it's the last but anywho.....lol
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I'm o.k. with it because...I understand Hive and what a downvote is.
Here's the problem with downvotes though for the chain as a whole...
Experienced Hive members understand, that until 7 days is up, those aren't your rewards. You have 7 days to earn as many as you can, and if someone doesn't agree with what you are going to cash out, they can reduce it with a downvote. I understand it completely. I don't agree with it, because I'm more of the mind that if I don't like something...I move on. But I 100000% understand it and respect it.
But the issue isn't for people that...Know Hive.
The issue isn't for people that have been around the block, gone through a few downvote wars and understand the rewards pool.
What the issue comes down to someone that has just shown up on chain...
They put their blood, sweat and tears into a post. And then a few days after they publish it, poof, some of those rewards are gone because of something they don't understand.
An upvote is a positive feeling.
It makes you feel like you are valued.
A downvote, is tough to swallow when you are new.
You are just learning the ropes, trying to figure out the community and what makes this place tick and then...You get this 'negative' vote on your post.
Again, my concern isn't with someone who has been here getting a downvote or two. Most of us accept it and while it still sucks, we understand what happened and can live with it. But for that new member to the blockchain, that becomes a negative experience. And guess what happens when people start having negative experiences?
They don't come back.
Who am I? Just a guy who shows up every day on Hive, loves this place and wants to add massive value to it each and every day. So I'm hardly a whale and most definitely not an expert when it comes to everything technical on Hive.
I understand the protection of the rewards pool, and I think the downvote serves a fantastic purpose for keeping abuse out of here. It's not perfect, but hey, it's decentralized and as the saying goes...Your stake, your choice!
But going around and downvoting people that are being supported by someone you have a grudge with. Potentially could turn a new Hive member into a previous Hive member as there's a good chance they won't come back around.
I know, I know....I'm living in a utopian society lol But I just can't help but think....If Hive wins. If all these tribes win. We all win.
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If this placed had less ways to be transparent, those downvotes would have just been anonymous and people would still wonder why their stuff gets disliked. A lot of people post content someone else out there in the world will find an atrocity to mankind on a daily basis. It's unreasonable to expect people will share something that get 100% support but it's only here where people can actually see who dislikes their stuff, gets a dose of reality that they can still be disliked for doing absolutely nothing, and even compounded by the fact that there are monetary consequences to that dislike.
My take on the matter is good content creators (if creating content for money is the game) can suck up the loses and move on. I have yet to see any content creator on youtube that has reached millions of views without any dislike on their videos because that's just part of the norm. I guess people are just too soft/sour to consider that once they want honesty (even when the reason can just be as absurd as choosing a wrong color scheme for a thumbnail on a post) it actually means getting the red pill that what their stuff can also be disliked just as it can be liked.
I don't question why someone bothers to upvote my stuff, safe to assume it got liked. And it probably is the same for downvotes, my stuff just probably isn't to someone's liking.
The major difference between a YouTube downvote and Hive, is the monetary attachment to it. But once we understand that as creators here, that it's part of the game...We are ok with it :)
I view downvotes as a necessary evil these days. But I do think we need them to counter real problems.
One of the issues is those who are attracted to the downvote teams have a lot of authority issues, so on one side of their mouth they say they are normalizing downvotes, but then they go on to call names, and basically degrade people after the dv in order to justify it. That does the opposite of normalization, it teaches people downvotes are punishment.
I used to be an advocate of downvoting, but now I only use them in clear abuse, because there is too much name calling, targeted hits, and basic drama, mostly coming from a small number of accounts.
Everyone's stake is their own and at the end of the day they can use them how they like, but when you see more users getting run off than staying, you invest accordingly.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Such good points, it has become punishment. And I wish it would be used strictly to keep the chain clean from spam and scams. But alas...Everyone has that right, to use it as they see fit.
Thanks for stopping by WU!
!CTP
You do not need to tell me. I saw it with my own eyes in the previous almost five years. I am on the Hive blockchain since 2017.05.17, and I saw thousands of people coming and going. To be honest, even I left a few times, but unlike most people, I came back. Most of my followers are inactive nowadays, because they left the platform years ago.
It would be much better to support new and old users, and create a positive experience for them, instead of scaring anyone away. Some people say that Hive is our company. If this is true, then these downvote wars are like cutting a tree under ourselves. This scares away many people.
Certain downvotes are good. Especially reasoned downvotes. For example downvoting spam and scam. So downvotes are necessary. But not the excessive, unreasonable downvotes, including the downvote wars.
Have a nice day. All the best. Greetings and much love from Hungary.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I think Hive is going to make it :) We aren't perfect but it's still the best thing out there by a long shot :)
LMAO so true! I hate downvotes for this very reason. Innocent people get in the crossfire because of some hurtful & fragile egos. 😂
I have stopped looking at the votes and the downvotes I get. They do shit with your dopamine levels. That is the reason why I feel WEB3 social is more toxic than WEB2 social. When it comes to money, shitshow is bound to happen.
Also, I have stopped arguing with people over petty things. I don't expect others to behave like me or agree with me all the time... can only try.
This strategy keeps me sane, happy, and rich on Hive. :))
I hope whales understand this. :)) After all, they have the biggest stake on the platform and by hurting innocent people, they are putting it at stake. Common sense. 😂
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Yeah that's my thinking, if people have grudges and wanna down vote each other...That's on them. But bringing everyone into the mix, is just odd.
You're a brave man putting yourself out there like this when it comes to downvotes.
My lips are firmly sealed!
;)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
lol yeah, I dont think I rocked the boat too much but ahhh well lol
I agree but...
And I mean this is the most positive way possible. "Success is my Duty". People have to learn this. People have to learn to go after what they want in life, on Hive.
I have taken down votes as a positive. It gives me reflection on myself even if I did not believe I deserved a down vote.
I understand that most people especially New people to Hive will have a hard time with down votes.
I hope they will talk about it. Get reassured from people like you and me.
Your post and my reply show the good that can come from the asses that down vote just because...
My 2 cents worth.
Bradley
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I mean, if someone is trying to downvote to help you get better, we have a system in ListNerds for that lol Doesn't take rewards away per se. But I see what you are saying.
Generally, I'm no Pulitzer Prize winning author so...The fact I get a single Hive blows my mind and I'm grateful for it lol
Lol. I said it before I will say it again. Start giving yourself more credit my friend 😀
I don't mind the downvote because of something I've said. That's absolutely legit. When I have a problem is with the 'blanket' downvote, particularly when delivered by a bot. That seriously irritates me.
It's sorta like heaven and hell. If you believe the concept of heaven you gotta have hell with it. The DV is really a necessary part that is the counterbalance to all sorts of shady behavior. And if you are a plagiarist or another type of intellectual property thief you should be DV'd to oblivion. Just sayin'
Great points man! And I align with that thinking too. Hope you are doing well!!
Yeah, controversial topic for sure @jongolson. And very poorly understood ...
I agree with what you have to say here, as I have experienced (in my mere 4 years ...) similar "drama" and loathe the typical outcome of most of it.
Did this account invest their time to let you know why they elected to do this? With any of us who have "been around," we know the answer. Exceptions to this (yes, I invested my own time to check on this downvote) are remarkably rare ...
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It's a blanket downvote I'm sure. Just because I got upvoted by someone, they are ;sticking it to them; by downvoting everyone they support.
downvotes are always "fun" :)
LOL Oh the best!!!
Decentralization works in mysterious ways but downvoting is a natural part of it when it comes to Hive. Yeah, a downvote may be demotivating for newbies but if they can't take a few blows and continue grinding I would doubt their determination in the first place.
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Oh once you understand how it all works, you are ok with it. But at first glance, they really hurt the creator when they are new and don't 'get it'.
Downvotes are emotions and when I see them I wonder what I did wrong. But sometimes there is no explanation for it, rather maybe some bot applying a formula and discouraging big gains from posts. It is not good, nor bad, I can understand the idea of spreading more instead of concentrating on certain users.
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Yeah that's true. We have to be stoic with it all lol
From what I understand. Newsflash just downvotes everything Marky upvotes x)
Yeah that's all it was apparently. Nothing to do with the individual content.
Nope, not at all
I should have read this comment instead of the post xD
You may not like downvotes but it does help stop some of the abuse happening on the chain. I would just move on but I do agree that I was confused when I first started and saw some downvotes here and there.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Oh I LOVE downvotes for protecting the chain from abuse. I think they are super important for the community to self police itself!
.
ha ha ha ha yeah it's weird to see those 0 ones come in.
Friend of mine who's a "free speech crusader" is fond of pointing out that free speech includes "the freedom to be a complete antisocial jackhead."
Regardless, it still bugs me when some people seem to weaponize downvotes. I look at my posts... and I have a few downvotes on many because someone has an axe to grind with someone who upvotes my content. They don't even read my stuff, they would have zero idea as to whether they are "in disagreement with rewards" or anything else.
It reeks of Junior high and "I can't be friends with you because you're friends with Bobby who spoke to Jack who's friends with Bill whom I hate!"
To be perfectly blunt: Grow the f!ck up!
Yeah I mean...If you dont like me, or think I'm over rewarded...So be it. But like you said, getting a downvote because someone they dont like voted you...It's weird. lol
Down one with a reason is ok.. and if someone is getting doctored than he should also had a right to know the reason. In my opinion it is punishment and if some one getting punished without knowing the reason it's not fair...
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That's the thing with the blockchain, they dont need a reason. And if you disagree with the reward pay out, sure. Or whatever reason. Some of us just choose to use it if we see the abuse and blatant spam.
There is so much happening here that is fantastic. The downvotes while a necessary evil, don't help keep people here and engaging when used maliciously.
I agree with what you say here. Let me add my input and bare in mind that I am here only since a year or so.
I do get downvotes sometimes and I do not care really, I never got a big one and I try to stay away from the drama, the downvotes I get are just small accounts every now and then, I do not use this platform to say what I really think tho because that way I'd get nuked instantly lol I just try to have fun here and do some stuff I like, I do not want to be any paladin of justice spreading information or misinformation (there's hive police here that thinks what can and cannot be said so I do not really see freedom of speech here, unless you do not care about rewards, then yes we have freedom of speech and you can say whatever the fuck you want, but if you cross that bridge probably some big account will start down voting the shit out of you no matter what you have to say, if you say something they will start to abuse you verbally, I've seen so much of this shit here that makes me laugh, grown up adults not being able to have a discussion and just acting like kids downvoting each other because of different opinions...
Downvotes for spam and plagiarised content are great, downvotes for difference of opinion are great, but if you get 300 people voting you and let's say you go up to 40$ and then 1 single account drops it to 0 that is not fair, that is abuse, if they removed only a part of the 40$, like a 5% then yes it makes sense, but so many downvotes we see are straight up abuse of power, and the thing is that they can do it, it's in their right as stakeholders, they just show everyone that they only care about themselves and that their opinion is more of value than the opinion of 300 people, who they think they are? But hey welcome to the capitalistic world where money = power and if you are poor you can just suck dick 😁
Protecting the reward pool right? How come that I see the same people getting the same upvotes all the time? So long for protecting the reward pool and helping the newbies...
This is my personal opinion, I feel like I do not have the right to have one anymore...
I think this is why layer 2 is so important. The 'protect the rewards pool' argument wouldn't matter then, at least on layer 1. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I think you get these vote because you have built up a account which draws a lot of attention, so might still be a win ;)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I'm still trying to get on taskmaster levels!!!!! lol
I panicked the first time I got a downvote and tried my best to find out what I did wrong. It kinda affected me for sometime until I have forgotten about it eventually, lol! Nowadays, there's those accounts with an "x" on them that keeps downvoting although their downvote amounts to zero, it still triggers something psychologically hehe.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yeah lot of the bots just downvote ya with no hive power, that happens all the time. but the first time it happens, i can see where people keep asking themselves...What did I do wrong??
Yes, and the questioning gets serious most especially when the one downvoting you is not a bot, lol!
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I think unless spam, plagiarism is the case, there does not seem to be need for downvote. For example, if you don't side with ukraine and want to stay neutral do you deserve downvote? I guess people will find a way to downvote each other. I think if one wants to earn rewards they have to be PC in most of the environments around.
Is this freedom of speech?
Remove the rewards and no one will be on this platform anymore!
The more time I spend in this place the more I can smell the stinky shit inside it 😂
I think 'bubbles' are a good and bad thing on hive. Communities I guess...But that way, we kind of focus on the topics we are passionate about, and stay clear of others.
Hey buddy welcome to the club lol
I got the same downvote at same value ✌️
ha ha ha ha a badge of honor!!!!
😂😂💪💪
A good friend of mine still believe downvotes shouldn't be on hive😆😆😆. Like not everyone should have the ability to downvote. Some clowns have taken this shit to the next level 😂. I get your point tho. Stay safe ✌
Well, he csn go to blurt or steem then xD
Haha 😹
Oh I think they are critical. Hive would be a mess without them. But with power comes responsibility lol
Exactly... Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely
Man we get hundreds of upvotes on our posts but then there is this one downvote and whatever we want to think it's this one downvote that remains in our minds. From a psychological point of view downvotes can be devastating...
Oh for sure...I mean that post still had hundreds of upvotes and like 20 bucks or something in rewards. You'll never see me complain about that :)
IMO its not that new people don't understand the 7 day rule. If you see your post upvoted by a lot of members like me (with a small stake) and you accumulate a few HIVE as a reward from those, and then comes a single person with high stake and negates all those peoples opinion with a single downvote, that's a problem. When curation accounts are involved too, that's a whole new level of mess.
I can't remember where I read it but when I first joined, someone made a post about how thankful they were for every vote...Even if it was worth 0.01 Hive...And I agree....Every single one...I'm so thankful for!
I do understand how people feel when downvoted, I still feel that way when I work hard to write and nothing happens so it is understandable but, since there is nothing to do, the best thing is truly accepting it and moving on in the hope that it stops.
True, that's something I do a lot...if I don't agree with something, or don't like it...I just move on.
If you can't change it, there is no point fighting it.
A downvote should be explicitly for only abuses, not for stabbing different views! A good comment and making your point is more efficient than a downvote!
Wrong. A downvote can and should be used the same way as upvotes :)
We don't agree and that's ok 👍
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That's my utopian society that I dream of lol I still don't use my downvote for anything but abuse. But it's the blockchain, our stake, our choice :)
I recently had a 2 Hive downvote and found it odd. I looked up who it was from and I really deserved it because I did something wrong. Personally I have no problem about it if it is my fault and they explain to me why it was at least not to do it again.
Lately I have seen that there is a lot of research to be done on all this downvote stuff.
The downvote drama jajaja I'm going to have to write a post about it
I think if you add value to the blockchain and stay away from the drama, you can steer clear of the DV's unless someone really doesn't like your stuff. Posts like this, potentially can make me a target. lol But at the end of the day, I want everyone to win on Hive. Downvotes or not.
In the end, behaving well has a lot to do with it. If things are not done wrong and as you say you avoid the drama you can avoid the downvote. Even so, I think there is much more behind all this downvoting that I don't know because of how new I am.
I didn't see the post, but was it from that guy who's trying to cancel out the leovoter and buildawhale upvotes?
Anyway, yeah, while I don't personally like it..meh, whatever. I can get one and move on.
But I think it's a horrible thing to happen to a newbie. Very unfriendly and could potentially chase them away when we desperately don't want that.
Maybe the solution is newbie accounts are shielded from all downvotes for a year (or X length of time).
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You must be killin' it out here!
@dbooster just slapped you with 5.000 PIMP, @jongolson.
You earned 5.000 PIMP for the strong hand.
They're getting a workout and slapped 2/2 possible people today.
Read about some PIMP Shit or Look for the PIMP District
That's an interesting idea, problem would be the abuse it might bring. Lots of spammers would be waiting for that lol
Well said!! I don't even like downvotes when they were -0.00 from some spam bot, haha. I mean, who downvotes food?? lol
lol people just need to hug it out more lolol
hahaha yes!!
Mehn. I completely understand you and I completely agree with you. I remember when I got my first downvote, I was still in disbelief 3days later.
It's a badge of honor now :)
Stop your whining.
I really hate downvotes and I know it's a controversial topic but I think that's why Blurt is superior in that aspect. And although downvotes serve to control abusers downvotes bring more harm than good, especially in vote wars and abusive whales who just want to ruin your day or life.
So you think there should be no recourse against the hundreds of posts a month that are plagiarised, spam, the multi account farm with hundreds of fake accounts and all the rest of the cheating that is attempted here on a constant basis?
If you have better alternative, I'd love to hear it. I've seen Blurt, it's full of dross content and as someone who frequents places to read good stuff, I won't waste my valuable time on Blurt.
And Blurt is inferior in:
And what's stopping content being ripped off here from being rewarded there even if they don't own it? if someone wants to monetize my work without my permission, they can do so at Blurt and there's no consequence to deter that.
I haven't messed with it. Just because I think downvotes are a very important factor for protecting from abuse and spam. It's a little rough around the edges lol But it's working.
So why are you still here if Blurt is superior?
I totally agree.
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I wrote in the past about the negative feeling a downvote produces to unexpecting 'casualties of war' (flag war that is, since we have an example of real war happening, and it's far worse). While I understand downvotes for reward disagreements and the need for them, personally I only DV abuse, as do you. Great post!
The Dead Unicorn cracks me up every time I see it. Reminds me of the old RAID commercials from the late 70s lol.
Downvotes I see how they are useful and at the same time, I can see how they could be used to bully people as well.
I wish I had a more constructive suggestion but alas I do not so the current system will have to do and I will try not to make any one angry enough to downvote me back to the stone age lol yabba dabba doo :-D