Is SBI Still Taboo Or Is It A Valuable Tool On Hive?
Story time....
When I got started on the blockchain it was REALLY hard to get noticed. And even more so, harder to attract engagement from others without being on the trending pages. Back then, a 'good post' seemed to be the one that got the most rewards which in turn attracted the most engagement.
So I was always looking for a way to increase engagement and visibility during my initial years on chain.
In 2018, I travelled to Toronto for an event called Steem Creators.
And one of the guys I got to meet with at the event was @josephsavage He was an awesome dude and a guy that seemed to understand how this whole blockchain stuff worked. While I was picking his brain, he mentioned a project he had just started called:
Steem Basic Income (@steembasicincome) or SBI as it's also called.
The general idea behind SBI was that it's aim was to provide sustainable 'basic income' for everyone on chain, and how it was set up you actually got rewarded, for rewarding others. Send some liquid 'Steem' and you would get a share in SBI, plus the person you sponsored gets a share as well.
The shares stacked and SBI maintained hundreds of thousands of powered up crypto, and supported the share holders.
Of course, I'm simplifying this, and there is so much more to it however this was met with some opposition.
There was actually some massive 'downvote wars' that began because as some protectors of the chain said...It was nothing but a rewards pool hustle.
Personally, I thought it was a brilliant way to increase engagement on your blogs and support smaller creators for sticking out, and taking action. But alas, it most definitely had people on the fence. Some hated it, others loved it.
A few things have happened since then....
Obviously, the big one was that we left Steem and the project transitioned to become Hive Basic Income. A re-brand and re-focus on everything Hive related and Steem was left in the rear view mirror.
The next was, a lot of the community that seemed to seriously detest SBI, let things go and have moved onto greener pastures.
So that's the story so far....
Which brings me to the question at hand.....
Is SBI (HBI) considered kosher now?
Or are we still considering this shaky ground?
My opinion...For whatever it's worth is....
I haven't sent any HBI to anyone in years, but it's not because I don't think it's a valuable tool. I just didn't want to deal with the drama lol I'm not one for the 'downvote wars' and figured it'd be best to just let things cool off.
That being said, I personally think it's a fantastic tool to help drive more engagement to our posts and let others know we appreciate them stopping by and leaving their feedback and comments.
The dream of 'living off Hive' especially through HBI isn't going to happen right away and I don't have the numbers handy, but I doubt that HBI is 'taking millions from the rewards pool' but again....I am not sure what the present state of the project is.
I'd love to hear from you guys, and let me know what you think of HBI now and if it's still considered taboo on chain....Or if it can be used to drive more engagement to our content?
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Actually, since I got back into Hive at the end of 2021, it was something that was actively reccomended to me!
People welcomes me back and sent me HBI, they reccomended I build up some HBI, when I onboarded my kids people actively sent THEM HBI too, and recently I even won HBI as part of a contest I got 1st place on.
Because of this, I've also returned the favor or put it forward and sponsored others.
So it costs Hive to sponsor someone and you both get 1 HBI.
1x HBI won't change your world.
As a trade off that 1 HBI could have been 1 HP. That HP would earn you both interest and increase your curation rewards.
I can't yet decide if I want to sponsor 1000 HBI or if I want 1000HP?
It's a bit too complicated for me to calculate.
I know some people who have over 2000 HBI...yet they dont post every day.
I've determined to just relax and gather a little here and there, but I do not know that it is a "taboo" anything.
Just before we forked to Hive, it was quite the little bit of drama lol
I always thought it was a great idea, but some felt it was vote buying.
!CTP
It might seem that way, but as I said, we havent really got the math down to prove if it is an exploit or actually just a different way of spending your Hive.
As usual, it only really starts turning heads when someone DOES do something exploitive with it.
Consider this:
I have myself, my wife and my three kids on Hive. My wife and I both contribute content, a variety. We aren't bringing massive money from outside Hive, we bring content and we bring other people. We make the platform busy and worthwhile and social. We teach our kids.
As time goes by, I sponsor a little HBI here and there to my wife and kids and my own HBI stacks up. In a matter of years I might have a couple of hundred or a thousand.
I have been posting regularly on Hive for years by this point, earning crypto for my time. The SBI votes will have increased but will be insignificant compared to all the other votes I have built up by then. Look at your average votes on a post as an example.
I don't consider this exploitive behavior.
Now imagine an exploitive behavior by someone who has no altruism at heart and wishes only to profit.
They come to Hive with $1,000,000 and build 2 or more accounts with fairly chunky bits of HP. Then they buy thousands of HBI tokens, sponsoring their alt account. Now both have HBI.
Now this person starts posting with both accounts. They don't break any rules such as plagiarizing, spamming or posting in the wrong community, but what they post is garbage.
They do not engage with others and do not follow or vote for other people's stuff. Just the two(or more) alt accounts. Each will earn from votes on HBI(SBI) and their own votes. Their content is just enough to not get into trouble but adds nothing to the platform or to our little society.
THAT would be exploiting the rewards pool. they will start pulling their $1mil back and go beyond, draining Hive of value in exchange for nothing.
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Man, STEEM used to drama all kinds of dumb stuff. I remember when SPI was targeted. The thing is that since we didn't operate based off upvotes, it didn't affect the project.
The good thing about HSBI is you don't have to feel pressured to post everyday - the pending balance mechanisms adjusts exactly to deliver to you the votes that have built up over time! You can even go on vacation and come back to massive votes.
Indeed! That is advantageous. I post daily so I don't see a massive accumulation from the SBI accounts.
I think I only have 24 HBI though... I will maybe increase that to about 50 by the end of the year. We shall see!
yup. It encourages me to come back and post when I've been gone for a bit. There's nothing worse than less than 0.10 payouts.
1000 HP first for sure. It goes with the "not your keys, not your crypto" theme.
But they're still cool to collect, especially when you win them or give rhem away as welcomes.
Indeed. I don't think I will try get much HBI until getting that 1000HP mark... which I am fairly confident I will reach before the end of August! I started 1st of January on 313HP so I am super stoked about that! 🍻
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Rules for upvoting a post today are different than what they were over 2 years ago or even 1 year ago. Whatever caused grief in 2020 is no longer a concern in 2022. Even if there is still grief, it won't be as great as it was earlier.
From what I understand, the culture was different in 2020, and things like upvotes were driven by numbers. Fast-forward to right now, and the emphasis appears to be on engagement.
Whether the name is HBI or the original SBI, I think we can mainline it.
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Yeah and it was right around the time of bid bots...So vote buying was trying to become 'old news' as we matured. I can see how the culture has changed big time since then.
!CTP
I wonder how much of us mellowing was lockdown related and how much of it was moving to HIVE?
massive downvote wars?
uh....
it was one guy. Who is now trying to take over Blurt.
He was downvoted for vote buying/selling, and he responded by attacking SBI, which he considered to be 'no better than what he was downvoted for'. Except that we have a huge community of supportive users. And we responded effectively. And he got bored....and moved on.
It might be possible that people don't understand what is going on with many things, and there is so much going on that this is probably often the case - we can't all keep up with everything. But as far as your impression of what happened - in this case I think you thought it was more than it was.
Just one dude, doing one dude stuff (with several alt accounts of course). And a successful community project responding in solidarity and overcoming adversity - as it should be.
It hurt my community. I had quite a few people stop posting on the blockchain because I had sponsored them with SBI. And he went on a rampage and downvoted everyone who was receiving shares. I brought quite a few entrepreneurs that said to hell with this after they started getting downvoted. Might of been one guy, but it really hurt my community and I'm sure Hive as well.
!CTP
It was just mmmmkkkk who decided to downvote everybody with hbi shares x)
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I tend to agree, bad actors have no good effects. I am generally happy how we responded to it, I doubt you are interested in all the details but I actually had some pretty clever battles with him myself - he was automating most of his activities and I always love trying to trick bots - I like to think I was annoying enough to help him get bored sooner.
Also the community did team up to try to 'heal' some of the damage, but in the end these are the mechanisms on which this chain works. Many users defend downvotes as a part of the consensus mechanism, and this is completely unrelated to HIVE SBI. Luckily, these users did not join with mmmmmkkk - they had a chance but decided that HSBI brings value to the chain. No one else downvoted. There is some discussion on whether ctime is the same person as an alt or not. So maybe he did have one 'friend'.
One thing that surprises me still, is how fresh this stays in people's minds - how hurtful it 'appeared', as you say - 'it hurt', even if it only lasted two months, year(s) later we get people wondering if its 'safe to use SBI again?'. You are not the only one, it has not happened as frequently recently, but every once in a while user will come into discord with this exact question -
'Are users still getting downvoted for using HIVE SBI?'
Fascinating stuff. A hurtful episode in the history of HSBI, and the HIVE chain. I still love the program personally, and sponsor people all the time.
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That's sad... Aren't they interested in growing the platform?
There were others championing his cause and actively working to discourage anyone getting benefits like winning SBI. I had several DMs trying to talk me out of awarding SBI at PYPT claiming that I was supporting vote-selling and if they didn't stop the use of it more downvoting was going to happen.
So might have been one publicly acting but there was a definite whisper campaign happening to try to starve the project.
That "just one guy" had an impression on me too.
It is good that the problem is gone, but it was definitely a "thing" and something to consider if you are investing in a program.
Size matters in stake weighted blockchains. But just because one guy has a lot of stake, doesn't make him any more than one guy.
And the fact that he is trying to take down slash take over Blurt right now, kind of says something about the caliber of one guy that he is.
I'll admit personally I've gotten really iffy on dividend style tokens. To me it's become just like using a money manager or broker where you're expecting them to yield better results and most likely they are taking a cut. You'd be better off doing it yourself if you had the know how and diligence. That's just me though.
I have never understood the math of it all, way over my head lol
!CTP
!PGM
!PIZZA
#I need more of these tip things lol
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please, your math is sooooo much better than it was four years ago.
"I'm so good at math. I understand this crypto thing. I am a great investor."
I personally would love to learn how to do it by myself!
start following @spinvest, they explain everything they do, and it becomes easy to replicate.
leofinance has some good writers too that have some great suggestions on where to store your crypto.
I tend to be boring and stay mostly on HIVE.
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I tend to agree with you.
Especially when you are paying someone a cut to do things. But there are some projects, that not only do stuff but teach stuff.
SPI for example, I learned so much from watching them grow the account, and now I am starting to do the same thing for myself.
Or, like Eddie-Earner, of course, you can do that for your own account, but watching interest rates grow is just.... fun, and doing it as a community makes it that much better.
That's awesome I'm sure there are many positives to these otherwise they wouldn't exist and be around for so long. I think it's important for new people to hive to have someone to follow or a way to automate things a bit as they learn to navigate hive. There's a lot to it and I know if I was just coming in it would be a little daunting still to figure out.
I remember that short drama. I've been sponsoring people like crazy at Blockchain Poets for the past year and haven't run into any trouble since. I think it's pretty much ok.
So good to hear!
Going to fire it up then lol
!CTP
Is this even still a thing? I remember reading about it long ago but then it disappeared. Thought it just was one of those things that didn't work out.
!CTP
Yup, and going very strong too apparently!
!CTP
I'll have to do more research so I can get back in and grow with them.
!CTP
!PIZZA
Learned something new today! I have some SBI/HBI and hope that its ok!
For sure, the more you have the better!
!CTP
How does it work these days to actively get/earn SBI? For me Inonöy know it from regular giveaway posts that someone in the German community does. You can post a comment and if you are lucky you win a few SBi. Other than that I have no idea how to get them. 🤷🏼♂️
Pretty sure it works the same. You send liquid Hive to the SBI account and in the memo, you put the sponsor name in.
!CTP
Well that was an interesting read!
I'd forgotten all about SBI although I really enjoyed rewarding people with it back in the day.
I received my first token from a woman I followed who lived in Holland and gave out my first token to someone in St. Petersburg. Happy memories, although none of us made the move the Hive.
I didn't realise there was a website. I will be looking at the documentation there to remind myself of how it works.
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Yeah I'm excited to see how the project progresses especially being on Hive now.
!CTP
I remember some of that drama. But I think it was just one dude and a few of his friends. As I recall, he got called out for bid bot abuse, and then became a bit like a "reformed smoker" with SBI... even though the two are (in my opinion) like comparing apples and oranges.
I believe he and his friends are now stirring things up on Blurt and annoying people there just as much.
I think I have 160-odd SBI shares, and I still occasionally send one or two out... I still think it's a great way to encourage newcomers; send them some SBI shares and and you're basically supporting/encouraging them for life. SBI shares are also great as contest prizes, when you don't just want to give people liquid Hive.
=^..^=
That's exactly my thought to, it's a great way to engage with people and help build the relationship with your readers.
!CTP
Awesome discussion on this post! I’m still a big fan of hbi. I like sponsoring people.
Loving it!
That's what I hoped. To bring some attention back to the project because I think people can benefit from it.
!CTP
I never knew there was a downvote war about it. I've always used it in my contests - I used to do them a lot more regularly In Ye Olden Days - so I have a big pile of it, and my average vote from them is probably a couple of bucks (I don't post every day). The vote value adjusts based on how frequently you post - you don't get the same amount vote if you post every day vs every week.
Yeah it was more of a couple of guys on a rampage downvoting everyone using it. But that was a few years ago, and apparently, it's all good now.
!CTP
I very rarely see SBI mentioned in the blogs I read. I think only a smaller portion of hivers know about it, so small chance for drama. I sent you one, let the drama begin 😈.
!PIZZA
ha ha ha ha thank you very much!
!CTP
You're right Jong. I used to give out SBI and a few STEEM to new people to help them get started, and then they started downvoting people like crazy. We've lost a TON of good people because of that. We lost a huge influencer a couple years ago that I had introduced to LeoFinance, when he saw the cracked hearts on so many posts. "What are those little cracked hearts?"
As fast as I would refer people, they'd be turned off or run out by the downvoters. It was like a snake eating its own tail, and we still haven't learned, it's one thing after another.
If you were a whale, it was small fry stuff, but if you were a little guy or new, it was devastating. The fact that people still remember it should tell you how destructive it was to the image of the community. I'll never forget when they downvoted a homeless guy. Heartless.
The fact that a person of your stature is apprehensive speaks volumes.
I didn't know about HBI. I thought all of that ended with the downvoting gangs.
Yeah like @ecoinstant mentioned above...We humans are wired differently lol We'll get 100 upvotes, but that one negative always sticks out. It's part of the chain, and I get it...Just wanna see more attention to bringing value to the chain, not scaring people away.
!CTP
On a side note, I think it is still called SBI but now it means Stake-Based Income :-)
Makes sense, glad they could use the same acronym.
!CTP
I remember there was an argument on SBI front once on leofinance, it was when I joined there. I feel that there are some people in community against it and some favor it because they think it's a good tool. I feel SBI like project is a bit hard to sustain and maintain quality check.
My 2 cents.
They seem to be maintaining it, I mean I haven't touched it in years and am still getting regular rewards from it.
!CTP
A big part of me not really posting anymore is this weird anxiety I have over receiving SBI votes, lol
And that's why so many members of my community just stopped posting years ago. Sucks. But sounds like it's all in the past!
!CTP
Its in your head, please - post! Feel the freedom, its your blog - the worst they can do to you is downvote - but the (ONE GUY) that was downvoting it currently has no stake on HIVE and is trying to hostile takeover Blurt.
We're very sorry to hear this! Hive SBI was built to support and encourage small accounts, and to provide incentives for bigger accounts to sponsor small accounts with lasting support.
You can always use #sbi-skip in the body of your post if you think it's something more questionable to receive Hive SBI votes on (even if you hide it with html tags, it would still work to prevent our votes).
If that doesn't provide you the comfort you need to post, then you can have the units transferred to somebody else by sending a brief 0.001 transfer memo with instructions. Those kinds of requests are processed manually, so a quick
hey can you please transfer my units and pending balance to @somebodyelsepleasewould do the trickThanks for the reply! It's only a small thing, I mostly don't post because of real life stuff :P
Great to hear from ya. I am happy to still be getting these votes.
I get them sometimes but I don't really understand it. Glad to still be getting it for the STEEM I paid, but who runs it?
I've heard about it recently and it seems to be a good idea to me but I don't fully understand how the mechanism works yet.
I don't see many people writing about it on chain really, so maybe it's still sort of a taboo.
ha ha ha Oh I have NO idea how it all works. Super complicated math....I freeze up in math class lol
!CTP
I love sbi and yes I started sending some out last month again to see what the reaction be and folks seem to love it. I have ak=lways liked getting SBI and still do
Anyway that is my 2 cents worth have a great one
!CTP
!PIZZA
Yeah I'm thinking I'll fire it up again!
!CTP
Yeah, this post makes me want to buy more shares.
I had some SBI back then, eventually had to dispose of it. As for Hive, I have just 50HP delegated not much lol, just letting it play itself out.
I think am like the second layer tokens for rewarding engagement. I recently started using !PIZZA which makes me think am late to the party but enjoying giving out this tokens so far.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I love all the efforts being made for tips and ways to encourage engagement. It's a simple gesture, but a great way to let others you appreciate them.
!CTP
I think HSBI is fine and the community itself will decide whether or not the content is worthy. From reading the comments, it looks like the downvote wars were pretty bad and I am sure the people behind HSBI will look into anyone abusing the system. So I am not as worried about it.
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Yeah the guys that were really against it have left apparently.
!CTP
Very interesting, didnt know there have been so much troubles in the beginning
As @steembasicincome also wrote here, I also think an abusing account would not calculate on such a long term and probably will step into other well deserved troubles long before this pays off.
I love to use it as a little present to people or as a "prize" for the little beeber riddles sometimes hidden in my content ;-) these for example only are found by people who really read a post, so they deserved a little support
!CTP
It's so cool. And the best part is that both parties 'win' in the deal. Very powerful to see them stack over time.
!CTP
I've been a user of SBI for quite a while now, in fact I did giveaways for shares paid for with trash back when I made my first videos for the cleanplanet movement.
Lately I actually started questioning it a little bit as upvotes should depend on the posts quality and not be a default, and I was wondering if some would consider not upvoting sbi curated posts. But given the fact that you get 20% ROI on HBD, I think any argument against SBI and leeching reward pools would be completely unreasonable to begin with. I would rather see hive at a point where SBI is not needed, but right now I'm glad to get at least a guaranteed 25cents for a post that I worked on for hours lol.
Yeah, that brings up a whole new debate lol What is quality when it comes to a post. But I hear what you are saying, it's nice for newer members of the community to see some rewards even if they are small to begin with. It inspires to keep improving.
!CTP
I've been and continue to award HBI during PYPT each week. Bullies only profit when people back off to them.
Seems like it didn't work out all that well for them in the long run...
!CTP
of course it's taboo it has " that which shall not be named " in it :P
ha ha ha always mysterious!
!CTP
I cannot speak the name of the " other chain", that is equal to blasphemy :)
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Most of that was one guy and his alts. He downvoted me for months, then stop doing so for a few weeks, and then starting upvoting my posts.
Some people you just can’t understand.
ha ha ha Yup, same here. Months of downvotes and then, upvotes started....
!CTP
I am so interested in this comment section... but I'm leaving my opinion first.
I LOVED SBI, it was such a useful tool back when I was a STEEMITMAMAS Moderator. It was an encouragement tool. One share meant rewards for the rest of your hive career.
I still get upvotes from them. When I haven't written in a long time and don't know if I still have an audience, I know HBI will be there to welcome me back.
I stopped using it, pretty much for the same reason you did (upvote wars), but
i am glad I still have it.
I am glad to hear the project is still going strong. Would love to see it catch some new fire and get even more exposure.
!CTP
To be honest, I didn't know there were a controversy surrounding HSBI and I've been around since the Steemit days. I myself have a bunch of it and I will try anything that gives me an edge. Naturally, I understand there are things that are antiethical and I stay away from those. But I don't understand why people freaked out about HSBI. I mean, it's not that you got hundreds of Hive by doing that, plundering the pool. I think that it helps even a lot of beginners who don't earn anything with their firsts posts. Well, every head is a world, I guess.
Hasn't been anything recent, this was on the previous chain when it was known as SBI.
!CTP
Its because, although downvotes are 'part of a consensus mechanism', a single downvote hurts more feelings that 100 upvotes can replace. Its a funny thing about social human beings.
It was short-lived drama but traumatic for many of us
I'm glad is over. HSBI is a great project and I hope only the best for its future!
I know of at least two amazing communities who use it regularly as part of a prize fund. There's not a hint of drama.
This post has been manually curated by the VYB curation project
That's very good to hear. I asked mainly because it's been so long since I've heard any updates from SBI itself and the lack of 'drama' lol
!CTP
Thanks so much for the ctp :) Yes, I have actually won some units, and have never seen any comments on that either. So it seems like a pretty safe activity 🙌
!PIZZA !ALIVE
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The daily post cycle that we kept up for the first couple of years got to be too much to manage.
We shifted to quiet background development so we can dawdle along at a more comfortable pace. We can dribble out updates and make big announcements when we hit the key milestones.
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I remember, there used to be regular updates and posts with lists of who owned shares and their upvote values and such.
Wow, Jon. You still know how to stir up a pot, lol
This all went down before my time. The concept, as you explained sounds good but it brought up a lot of people with bad memories.
That's what good journalism is supposed to do, I reckon.
!CTP
Pot. Stirred lol
So far it's been a fantastic discussion. I'm really learning lot about it again, which makes me think it'll be good to start rewarding and sponsoring more down the road.
!CTP
Thanks for all the information. I keep learning more and more about the Hive and the blockshain.
Thanks for stopping by!
Personally, I really liked the idea. As a creator, if I know I will get at least some rewards for my efforts, I would def come up the next day and try doing the same. Going to try buying some shares for my favorite mates and for myself. xD
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With your story I can see you were so lucky to meet a good friend who could see you tru but I must say it takes a lot of perfection and consistency and maybe you are lucky to meet someone that is influential that can really help your journey it's a long road for some and it is shorter for some
But I believe it's all about time and hard work with consistency
I will really appreciate your mentorship @jongolson
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STOPCheck out the last post from @hivebuzz:
If it wasn't for SBI/HBI I would have been gone years ago. It really is the best thing on Hive imo. I would always use it for competitions. I am even doing one now. Long may it last. Thankfully I missed the voting wars
!BEER
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BEER.Hey @jongolson, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @geiwoyibeipijiu for you. Enjoy it!Do you want to win SOME BEER together with your friends and draw the
BEERKING.I have been with sbi/hsbi since 2018. I never experienced this DV problem and has always had a sizeable amount of shares. I did go awol from late 2019 to end of 2020. Still though it is a pretty good program and while I have large share amounts, the program is designed to support content with micro votes and meant to encourage content creation esp for new users.
!sbi status
Hi @shainemata!
Structure of your total SBI vote value:
No longer active on Steem? Convert your Steem SBI into Hive SBI.
See our FAQ for details!
I haven't sponsored anyone in a while but have hbi shares and have never had a problem on hive with it. I would like to start sponsoring again but can't remember how to do it. I'm also trying to work out how to do it (how much, how often).
Not sure if you're still curious... but you send 1 HIVE to @steembasicincome, and include the username (@johndoe) in the MEMO field. You will both get one unit.
i guess about our needs over hive blockchain to get more rewards