Why Stake If You Can Stay Liquid and Profit? .:. Late Night Blogging

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My friend @gadrian (sorry for another mention... 😂) would say: "You know, sometimes I wonder if it's good for us that we are so open with our "secrets". :)", but I have "responsibility" to share information (and experience) what I have with you guys... What you will do with that information are your business and your personal decision... But, you deserve to have all available options in front of you... No hiding under the rug, keeping valuable information to myself, or distracting you with some stupid things... We have enough of that when we turn on our TV!

I began to write this post about 3-4 days ago, but never got time to write it, and in the meantime, this topic became even more important! We got threats of banning ETH staking (in the US, and for "centralized" entities like exchanges), but we are used to threats in the crypto verse... To be honest, from my beginnings in crypto, I hear threats, banning, killing crypto, over and over again... I don't even hear this stuff and most of the time, ignore this "news", or better said "stories"... as they are just "stories"...


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So, my idea to write this post had 1 message which was closely connected to stuff on HIVE, but I will have to touch down on one thing more... But, firstly, let's talk HIVE, or better said, let's talk Hive-Engine... The inspiration for this post came from one specific token, but there are many of them with similar "logic"... We have many "types" of tokens on HIVE, like tribe tokens, dividends tokens, "gift" tokens, etc... A lot of them had at least 2 types of possibilities to "earn" them (I will not talk about inflation, good tokenomics, etc. this time)...

Tribe tokens you can STAKE, and earn more of them by CURATING (like you are doing with HIVE), and that can be a significant percentage APR compared to HIVE... But, you have significantly bigger inflation, too... In general, you stake tokens and earn tokens by upvoting others and when you want to unstake tokens, you have to wait X amount of time... That can be 13 weeks, 4 weeks, or 5 days, it depends on the token... You can't get your tokens IMMEDIATELY...


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Now we are coming to the juicy part... Diesel pools... I remember when I wrote my first post about them when the SL team was preparing to launch them... At that time, it was something that I heard about, as DeFi was popular on other blockchains and I was thrilled to hear that we will have it on HIVE! At this moment, I think that Diesel Pools are the most undervalued thing in the HIVE ecosystem! I know that some people are using them, but most people have no idea that they even exist!

Now, back to the story about tokens and staking... Some of the above-mentioned tokens have their pools paired with SWAP.HIVE, and not rarely, the APR on rewards is higher than your curation rewards... I know your next question... What about the impermanent loss!? I heard that so many times in the comment section by people afraid to provide liquidity in pools... And most of the time, people didn't understand what is imp. loss, how you can calculate it, and how it can be USEFUL! Yes, it is called "loss", but it can save you some money...

Back to reality... If you check Hive-Engine tokens the thing that you will see is that most of them are losing value constantly, day by day... Yes, we were/are in the bear market, but that can't be the "forever excuse"... A lot of times the value drops because of bad tokenomics, high inflation, high expectation, or just a lack of improvements, lack of experience, etc... So, how imp. loss can be your friend?


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If you have a token that has a similar APR on staked tokens (curation) and APR on rewards (+ you receive % on your fees too!), maybe you should consider moving your funds into the diesel pool and not staking... Your tokens will stake liquid (you can pull them out from the pool whenever you want) instead of locking them for months... Another advantage comes on the other side where you have to invest 50%-50% of two tokens into the pool... For example, your chosen H-E token and SWAP.HIVE... So, you COULD sell half of your tokens into SWAP.HIVE and pair them into the pool... In that way, imp. loss will work for you! Instead of having the same amount of your chosen tokens (staked), you will have some HIVE tokens too (50% or paired value in the pool)...

Also, I have to say that if the value of the token goes up, you will have a bit less of your tokens in the pool than if you did staking... But, that's your choice which way you want to go... Maybe the APR in the pool is much higher than in staking and you can BUY more of some other tokens (or the same)? The most important thing is that you have a CHOICE... And why should you lock your tokens if you don't have to? If rewards in the pool go down, you can always STAKE them, but if you need your tokens NOW, you can't unstake them in a minute...


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The same thing goes for Ethereum staking... At this moment, if you STAKE your tokens directly on the blockchain you CAN'T unstake them at ALL! That will change soon when they implement the next "hard fork" of the chain, but even then, many people will stay (or will go) in the direction of "liquid staking" that already exists (LIDO, FRAX, etc.)...

Do you use diesel pools? Are you rather stake your tokens and don't think about them at all, or do you like to search for the best way to use your assets? Tell me in the comment section!

Thank you for your time,

~ph~

PS. This is NOT financial advice


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That’s interesting @ph1102 🤓
Great late night reading.
Will have to look into this a bit more.
I do have tokens in some pools and earn that way too.

Have a wonderful weekend 👋🏻😊

Ps. I posted our destination where we moved to/ last part of my journey. In the post from Thursday: winter wonderland ☃️☃️☃️☃️
I have revealed it 😇😎
Finally… now I can share as much as I want. Can’t wait to show you more from around here. The stunning scenery.

!LUV

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(Edited)

Nice to hear that you are using pools! They can be a very good investment option, but you have to be careful with pairing some "exotic" tokens... 😃

Ps. I posted our destination where we moved to/ last part of my journey. In the post from Thursday: winter wonderland ☃️☃️☃️☃️

I didn't have time to check them before, but I did check your last 2 posts just now... and my reaction was something like this emoji 😱 ! Jumping from sun to snow! 😃

!LUV

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Yep, will be careful 😉😎 I am trying to go with the more stable ones and more established ones.
Thanks @ph1102

That’s great you had time for a few… hahaha 🤣 🥶🥶🥶
You know, it isn’t as cold as it looks though.

Have a great new week 👋🏻😎

!ALIVE

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I want to understand this but I don't. Maybe you can explain it to me the next time we chat all things Hive, @new.things?

Thanks for writing about this topic and giving us education and options @ph1102, even if I don't understand it (yet!) !LOL

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You are right about the lack of documentation and tutorials on the topic of Diesel pools... I suppose that is the main reason why it is "under the radar", as only people who dived deep into the DeFi have understood them... If I tell you to go to https://tribaldex.com/ and check for more detail, you wouldn't find anything for beginners... 😟

I have 2-3 posts that I was writing about them and you can search for more on HIVE...

Cheers!
!LUV

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Manually curated by EwkaW from the @qurator Team. Keep up the good work!

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I added a small about to a few diesel pools on beeswap for a bit of learning and fun a while back. All looks really interesting. I need to remember to check and review more regularly.
!ALIVE

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Yeah, Beeswap is a simpler front-end for diesel pools... I'm also using it for adding and removing liquidity from the pools...

!WINE

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Interesting topic there Zoltan, and especially the part about impermantent loss working to your advantage if the token price goes down, that might even be one factor in some tokens falling, at least if it's a pool tied to swap.hive, thanks for sharing and stay awesome.


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!ALIVE
!LOLZ

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Yeah, by exchanging some tokens to SWAP.HIVE for sake of adding liquidity, you are doing a favor to yourself and "take profits" while the token is worth something... Unfortunately, many tokens are going down and I doubt that a large percentage of them will survive in a year or two...

!LUV

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Great that we have not made one for ALIVE then, I have seen that many tokens suffer from having a diesel pool to swap.hive and wondered why, thanks for sharing.


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Great that we have not made one for ALIVE then, I have seen that many tokens suffer from having a diesel pool to swap.hive and wondered why, thanks for sharing.

Hmmm... it's not really black and white like that... I'm happy that we did one for LEN:LENM, and we are thinking about doing another one... When you have good tokenomics, it doesn't matter if people exchange tokens from one to another, it's a bonus... You have more liquidity, and trading volume, more people look at your token, etc...

Another benefit of having a diesel pool is that it's kind of "staking" as people provide liquidity and keep their tokens in the pool... Which again, can be good for a token...

For a token with good tokenomics, there is no bad pool... 😉

Cheers!

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Great, it sounds like we should focus on an ALIVE:ALIVEM pool up ahead then.


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Staking and diesel pools or anything else depends on the situation of the tokens and the pools 🤔. If it's profiting in some way and I don't do much about it, I'll prefer that way. Selling it to another one is also a choice that I can make and it depends on another token situation and my real money situation too. If I think about it, I'll come to many dependencies and must collect the data first before doing something.

This will be my answer in short.

search for the best way to use your assets

!PIZZA

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Yeah, it depends on the paired tokens in the pool... If both are stable, you will benefit from being an LP... If not, well, you have to make your math about participating or not... 😀

!PIZZA

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It's definitely an interesting conversation, @ph1102. I do both-- staking and #BeeSwap pools-- and I don't give much thought to the impermanent loss angle... if you lose on one, you gain on the other. I try to stick with higher returns and rewards pool with little to no junk.

Staking becomes much more important when it comes to curation habits. If I spend my time curating #LeoFinance and #CTP content, I should maximize those rewards by mostly staking those tokens. That's my understanding anyway... please do correct me if I'm wrong.

!CTP !PIZZA !ALIVE

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if you lose on one, you gain on the other. I try to stick with higher returns and rewards pool with little to no junk.

That's the point! The win-win situation is when you pair TWO tokens that you like BOTH... In that way, you will have more of the "weaker" token, but if you are in for the accumulation, you are still good... That's the way how I look at my pools... I DON'T invest in pools where I have a shitcoin paired with a quality one (for example HIVE)... Even if the APR is crazy high... I did that in the past and learned my lesson... 😃

And regarding your observation on curating in those two tribes, it's your personal choice... Curation is good as you support others too, but if the token value is constantly going down, is that doing a favor to others? I suppose it is because they don't lose anything...

Don't get me wrong, I also curate in those two tribes that you listed, but I don't have a crystal ball to see what will happen with them... The only thing that we have is our experience, the charts, whitepapers, tokenomics, etc... And tbh, I'm not sure what can we expect from any tribe on HIVE...

!PIZZA

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Ain't that the truth! 🙌
I only mentioned those two tribes as examples... I actually don't do as much targeted curation like that as I should. But I do have quite a bit of those two particular tokens staked. Funny enough: the only outpost I find myself making any effort to curate is #CineTV. That's also one of my larger pools though (paired with HIVE), so there isn't as much rhyme or reason to my habits as I let on. !LOL

The tanking of tribe tokens. Ugh! It has been a learning process, for sure. I've started leaning towards accumulating income tokens like UTOPIS, EDS and recently LGN. They seem like a smart way to play while still finding ways to participate.

For me... content is key. I have to produce more of it. Period.

!hiqvote !CTP

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Excellent post!!!

Impossible to identify the point of sale or stake, but we have to try to find balance and be aware of the movements

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Exactly... The message is always the same... DYOR and choose between different options which one suits the most for YOU...

!PIZZA

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I do not know a lot about pools so only have two token pairs in right now. I think I'm only getting anything from the sim pool.

I find it hard to believe pools are created that do not provide some kind of payment though so I'm still a bit on the fence. I've asked around but I get the same answer, "It's not safe". 🤔🤔

I'm not even sure there are any helpful articles about the topic outside of the one you said you wrote some time ago.

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I'm not sure in which pool are you participating, but as I can see, the SIM token price isn't doing that bad lately, so you should be ok...

I find it hard to believe pools are created that do not provide some kind of payment though so I'm still a bit on the fence. I've asked around but I get the same answer, "It's not safe". 🤔🤔

Pools are created to provide multiple benefits to everyone... From the liquidity provider perspective, you CAN earn rewards (if they are attached to the pool), but you also earn FEES from transactions when people swap tokens from one to another... If you to https://tribaldex.com (sometimes it works very slowly), and pick the Pools option, you can find FEES generated in 1 day, week, or month...

For the people who want to swap larger quantities of tokens, a pool is a great way to do it as they don't "move" the price significantly as it can happen in the regular market...

I agree about the lack of documentation about pools... It's a pity that there is no official FAQ or docs... 😞

!PIZZA

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(Edited)

I love single staking, but hate farming, as i may not have the proper knowledge, i always get loss doing farming, Yesterday my friend ask me to put my ron in the liquidity pool with Slp, I straight away rejected his offer, You won't believe i have lost almost 30k$ in this farming thing due to impermanent loss. Now i'm staying liquid and waiting for the bull run.

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I can't blame you for your "farming feeling" as I did similar to you... Invested a lot in Polycub and CUB, and lost a lot... Also, I did in some other farming platforms and lost there too, but lately, I'm doing much better... Why?

Well, the most important is to pay attention to the tokens involved in the "operation"... Pairing two stable coins (I mean also for example BTC/ETH, or some similar) where you "like" both tokens can be a wrong option even if you are getting rewards in some shittoken that losses the value... If you do that with a token where you get rewards in a token with good tokenomics, you can do very well... :)

But, I'm not here to convince you into something... I know that sucks when you lose money... But, among those bad apples, it is possible to find some good ones... :)

Thanks for the comment!
!PIZZA

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Are you rather stake your tokens and don't think about them at all, or do you like to search for the best way to use your assets?

I am constantly watching what happens to my tokens) I saw that theoretically transferring from one pool to another, it's possible to get a good interest... Now I'm gradually increasing the volume to feel the benefits))

But then again, I read the comments and realize that really few people use pools)

!LOLZ
!PIZZA
!ALIVE
!invest_vote

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Pretty soon he would be bacon.
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It is possible to increase your wealth by using pools, but you definitely have to know what are you doing and check everything multiple times before going into it... 😉

!PIZZA

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💪
!WINE
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I make both bets and investment in pools. The pools are a more complicated thing, it may seem simple but there are more variables to evaluate such as the impermanent loss, the loss of the value of the paired tokens, the increase in liquidity that reduces the performance and some other things.
They are a more difficult sea to navigate but can also give better returns.

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Exactly! You have more variables when you invest in pools, but the returns can be much better... I suppose that's always the case... More risk, more returns (or more losses 😃)...

!PIZZA

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I do use the diesel pools and I prefer adding things to the pool if I can. It just seems better to earn more tokens if I am confident about it.

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Yeah... Why lock funds if we can earn the same (or more) being liquid... ;)

!PIZZA

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Hmm I have never used diesel pools actually. Too complicated for me - and didn't really have the interest to learn. Am fine with holding and staking some coins, though these days I try to convert most of my Layer 2 tokens to Hive instead. More straightaway for me since I post and curate often.
!LUV

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Well, it's impossible to be everywhere and it's understandable that everyone does what fits himself... The most important it so take profits... ;)

!PIZZA

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Thanks for yet another mention! Nice ping-pong we have here, lol.

What about the impermanent loss!? I heard that so many times in the comment section by people afraid to provide liquidity in pools... And most of the time, people didn't understand what is imp. loss, how you can calculate it, and how it can be USEFUL! Yes, it is called "loss", but it can save you some money...

What if "impermanent loss" would be called "impermanent gain" instead? Would that make more people use liquidity pools? I bet it would.

The most important word in "impermanent loss" is "impermanent", not "loss". As in NOT permanent. You only make it permanent if you withdraw liquidity.

And about my wordplay saying "impermanent gain", it can actually be a gain. If you have two tokens in an LP and the one you want the most is temporarily losing value, while the other remains stable or raises (or loses less value), you end up with more tokens that you want the most. If you withdraw, you get more of them in raw numbers than you had put in (sometimes a lot more, depending on the price variations).

But generally, I prefer LPs where I want either token, so no matter the price variations, I'll have either more token A or token B, but I want both.

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100% agree with you on this one! I suppose it's called a loss as if you want to accumulate 1 asset, you will be more efficient if you just HODL it...

If you have two tokens in an LP and the one you want the most is temporarily losing value, while the other remains stable or raises (or loses less value), you end up with more tokens that you want the most.

It's a great accumulation method, and less risky than if you are buying tokens directly... In some way, you can say it's like DCA-ing into it...

And as you said, the best way to do it is to pair TWO tokens that you like... Then you don't have fear of imp. loss at all... ;)

!PIZZA

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I've been wanting to get into diesel pools for a while now, but I've so far not had enough of two useful tokens with which to do it! It's on my list! Excellent post with very useful information! 😁 🙏 💚 ✨ 🤙

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Accumulate, accumulate, accumulate... and then, invest where you are comfortable... 😃

Thanks for the comment!
!PIZZA

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Indeed, I have been, and most tokens are growing quickly! Yes, I'll toss myself into it soon! Absolutely! 😁 🙏 💚 ✨ 🤙

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I also think farming should not be done if there is single stacking then it should be done. When a person has thought that he is going to sell these bull's in the market next to him, then it is better to stake them and earn some coins. Stacking is better than farming in my view too.

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It's hard to say which one is better as it depends a lot on many different variables which aren't comparable sometimes...

!PIZZA

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