HBD Time Locks - Some Potential Edge Cases

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I'm not sure how soon the design and then, implementation for HBD time locks will come. I imagine things won't start... today.

But since the topic is hot, I gave it some more thought and identified a number of elements that will probably need to be addressed or handled carefully.

Interest After the Time Lock Expires

Let's say Alice wants to lock 100 HBD for 90 days for x% annual interest.

How would this process work (assuming it is done on the base layer, no bonds system at the second layer)?

This is a scenario, we will all see how it will actually work when it will be implemented.

Alice must have 100 HBD liquid in her account, then choose from her favorite interface the duration she wants to lock it for (probably a dropdown). In this case, she will choose 90 days. She will make sure the interest is acceptable for her. Probably she will have to confirm details. She will have to use her Private Active Key to confirm the transaction.

For 90 days (under normal conditions - we will discuss more later), she will receive the fixed x% on her 100 HBD.

The question is what happens after 90 days?

Scenario 1: Time lock expires, but the interest remains fixed at x% until Alice withdraws her HBD.

Problem: This defies the purpose of the time locks after the initial period passes.

Scenario 2: Interest remains fixed at x%, but time lock is automatically extended by the same period after a grace period to withdraw funds.

Problem: Too complicated. Can generate frustration and anger if funds get re-locked before someone realizes (notifications can be posted) they need to be withdrawn.

Scenario 3: Time lock expires, but interest drops to the interest for the shortest lock period or no interest at all is paid until funds are withdrawn or time lock is extended.

Outcome: Other than potential complications coding it, this seems like the best solution.

Note: Many of the problems above are generated by the fact the user (Alice) needs to use her Active Key to authorize whatever operation is decided at the end of 90 days. With a posting key, this could have been automated by a public service. But since this is a financial transaction, nothing can be done to improve the user experience, as far as I can think of.

Fixed Interest Rate and the Haircut Rule

The discussion was, at least during the last CTT, that funds entering HBD time locks should offer a fixed interest rate, so that the investor knows what he or she is going to receive, even if witnesses decide to change those rates the next day.

This makes sense because of the time lock. You can't lock away stablecoins if you don't offer one of two things (or both):

  • predictable APR for the locked period of time
  • the option to withdraw/liquidate if the investor is no longer pleased (in exchange of paying some penalties or receiving no or lower interest)

But, when we say fixed APR for a HBD "deposit", we have to keep in mind there is no such guarantee. If the haircut rule is applied, then no interest is paid to anyone, fixed or not.

The acceptable solution I see to this is that the interest is paid regularly throughout the lock period instead of once at the end. The investment still remains locked for the whole period.

This way, if or more likely when we will hit another haircut event, at least the investment pays the interest up to the point the haircut is reached (and potentially after restabilizing, if the time lock is long enough).

3-day Withdrawal Delay or 3-day Time Lock?

There is no guarantee we will continue to have the 3-day period in either form once the HBD time locks mechanism replaces what we currently have, but we all assume we will still have an incentivized short term option, and because we are used to this duration, I'll continue to use the 3-day period.

I talked in my post from yesterday about the difference between the two. A 3-day delay allows withdrawals at any time, but they are pending for 3 days (or until cancelled), during which no interest is received. A 3-day lockup period would not allow the account holder to withdraw HBD for 3 days, but probably the withdrawal, once initiated, would be instant.

The question is: does it make sense to build short-tem time locks, or we should use something like we already have implemented for the HBD savings account?

I think the answer to this question relies heavily on what we discussed in the first section, what happens after the time lock expires...

But I don't see why we wouldn't leave this mechanism we already have in place, on the very likely scenario it will pay a much lower APR compared to longer time locks.

Conclusion

I'm pretty sure the HBD time locks mechanism will have enough edge cases that will make it something not trivial to build and test. So we might not see it in the next hard fork in my opinion.

This is something I came up with after 2 days, sometimes as the topic came up in the podcast recording (fixed interest rate, for example).

I think this is going to be the last post on this topic from me, for a while. More when it'll be better defined so we can have something to talk about rather than imagining scenarios.

Posted Using LeoFinance Alpha



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39 comments
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Who is going to code this time lock stuff? How would it be implemented?

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(Edited)

Probably the Blocktrades team, the part that is for Hive core (base layer). Front ends will take care of their own implementations. And if there will be a second layer bonds system, that will be at the dapps level as well.

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Easier to just adapt the hbd interest rate?

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(Edited)

Only for the lowest-paying option, in my opinion. For everything else, the reason for having a time lock is lost if we have the same functioning as for the HBD saving account now because one could leave the HBD in after the time lock expires and have the HBD unlocked and also earn a better APR.

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I think there should also be an alternative market to sell off the time locked bonds if anyone needs to get out. If they do, they take the potential hit when people need to leave early. Other than that, I think that it shouldn't renew automatically. I think it could easily cause issues.

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(Edited)

Bonds are an obvious option to add to this. The thing with bonds is they will have to be at the second layer instead of the base layer and also at the dapp level. People who want to avoid higher risks will stay at the base layer, but lose the freedom to have liquid funds when they desire if they lock their HBD.

Other than that, I think that it shouldn't renew automatically. I think it could easily cause issues.

I agree.

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I am not in a favour of long lock-out periods.

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That will be your choice. You will choose how long you want to lock up your HBD. Probably the longer the time lock, the higher the APR. And if the second layer bonds will be built too, you can use that option to get liquidity before the time lock expires (by selling the bond tokens).

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Another nice post. Glad you've spend time to share about this.

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Thanks. Yep, it takes some time to write about this topic, but I'll probably switch to something else. I don't want to bore readers with the same thing all over again.

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Thank you @gadrian. This is very interesting. I will have to read both articles again. Since I have never used this feature it is hard to make sense. But I think you make a point that having the lock would not make that much interest? So what is the point of the lock? To get a flat rate of interest maybe? I'll read them over. Thanks again for your post. Have a great rest of the week! Barb ✨😊👍✨ !BBH !CTP #ctp

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Actually, the idea is the longer you lock HBD, the higher the interest will likely be.

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Yes, of course, most definitely the longer you lock the higher the interest! 😃🌟

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I think they should work on unlocking our HBD funds. It takes three days and that may be too long at times...

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Well, shorter than 3 days it's liquid HBD, without any interest...

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I think even when these are unlocked, people should not take them into the market, otherwise we may see the price go down.

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I think people should do with HBD and with HIVE whatever they want to. It's theirs, they earned that right. Of course, if they behave as bad actors in the ecosystem, there might be a counter-reaction.

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This is a well thought out post that looks at the different scenarios and options. I am ok with longer locks, and it is very similar to some bank offerings. I'm not too sure how others will react to that since most crypto users want to go away from anything related to traditional methods. I say we use what is effective, and go away from the useless ones.

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Time locks are widely used in defi. And that is a form of defi, interest on HBD. Personally, I think very long locks (over one year) are counter-productive in crypto, since crypto has such a short cycle and people would most likely want to use the liquidity. But perhaps combined with bonds on the second layer it makes more sense, Although there is no guarantee the price of the bond token at the second layer is highly correlated to the interest rate offered on the base layer. At best, it might be correlated with the current interest which might be lower (but also higher!) than the locked in one.

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It will definitely take time to build the infrastructure that will allow for HBD time locks and its mechanism to come into existence. The missing bits will be clear by then but it's great to have an overview of what is to come :)

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Like you said, it will take a while to have this built. And what we will have in the end might differ considerably from the discussions nowadays.

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Yea I think I love this concept. Something like fixed savings

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Something like fixed savings

Yep, pretty much like that.

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Personally, I prefer the status quo and don't see the benefit of having a time lock. We need already to wait 30 days to receive the interest.

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Yes, you need to wait 30 days for the interest, but you can withdraw the HBD at any time with the 3-day delay, and the interest already gained will be paid after the 30 days even if you don't have any HBD in savings at the time.

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Since the time lock topic is hot, I anticipate that new ideas will emerge as days pass as to the most suitable mechanism for implementing it in the most productive way.

!PIZZA

!BBH

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I'm sure they will, and more ideas are always better. That's how decentralization thrives.

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Great explanation, Adrian.
So, this will be similar to a certificate of deposit?

Thanks for sharing this, @gadrian

!CTP
!ALIVE

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The tip has been paid for by the We Are Alive Tribe through the earnings on @alive.chat, feel free to swing by our daily chat any time you want, plus you can win Hive Power (2x 50 HP) and Alive Power (2x 500 AP) delegations (4 weeks), and Ecency Points (4x 50 EP), in our chat every day.

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Yes, very similar to a CD. However, we'll have to wait for the exact implementation to see how similar and what are the differences.

Thanks for dropping by, John!

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